Ilaiyaraaja interview | ‘I was not an Indian or Tamil film music composer when I wrote symphony Valiant’

With a little more than a month to go for the release of Valiant, the much-awaited symphony composed by Ilaiyaraaja, the maestro explains to The Hindu how he did not allow any of his identities — an Indian born and raised in a small village in Tamil Nadu, a prolific film composer whose music was suffused with western harmonies, and an admirer of the music of great composers — to influence his work. On March 8, the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, which collaborated with Ilaiyaraaja, will mark the release with a live performance of Valiant


You are the first Indian, probably the first Asian musician to compose a symphony. When did you decide to compose it?


There was no need to take a decision. Music is my profession. Since there is a talk about the symphony, you ask about it. I have already used symphonies in film music and educated people about symphonies. After fifty years, some people keep a list of my songs and complain that I have copied them from others. When a speaker quotes a couplet from Thirukkural, will you say that he has copied Thirukkural? The idea is to educate the people. I do not differentiate between a symphony, a folk song or some other music. To me all is the same. If you listen to the background score of the Sundari Kannal Oru Sethi, a song in Thalapathy, it is like a symphonic form. The background score of O Priya Priya, En Iniya Pon Nilave, Ninaivo Oru Paravai and Madai Thiranthu have the elements. I just said I was inspired by great composers. Some say that I have copied Franz Schubert. His music often played in my mind when I was composing film songs. Though it gave me an impetus, there was no connection between the two. Even the rasikas are not aware of it.

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I came from a village and I had no knowledge of music. I entered the film world and worked as assistant to music directors. I continued to learn even after I became a music director, even though there was no need to learn. I learnt from L. Subramanian, L. Vaidhyanathan, L. Shankar and their father Lakshminarayanan. Subsequently I learnt from Dhakshinamoorthy Swamy, Madurai Krishna Iyengar and finally from T.V. Gopalakrishnan.

Yet, I will not say that I learned. I can say I understood the sampradayas (traditions) of music.

In film, if one of my songs becomes a hit, I have to compose a better song next time. I have to compete against myself. But this is not possible in symphony music. When you decide to compose a symphony, you should know what a symphony is. You need 10 births to listen to the symphonies of the world’s greatest composers. There are violin concertos, piano concertos, flute concertos and there are sonatas too.

I am an Indian – a South Indian born in a small village (pattikadu). I cannot incorporate into a symphony the music I listened to when I was young. There is no place for my identity as a film musician in symphony composition.

I cannot allow room for the complaint that I have used the background score of a film song. The Indian element in me should not be a part of my symphony composing. If these elements are there, some might say that an Indian has composed.

My objective is to write an actual symphony. While writing I should be also careful that the sounds and elements found in the composition of the greatest composers are not in my writing. Then people may say I have copied Beethoven or Mozart and ignore my symphony. I am saying this just to explain the difficulties I faced. I was surprised by the feedback I received from the world’s best conductors for my scores. One great conductor said, “I cannot believe this.” I do not want to reveal his name. I wrote it in just 34 days. The conductor said, “This is beyond perfection. I cannot sleep tonight.”


In India, some performances, for example a Sitar symphony to mark Pandit Ravi Shankar’s birthday and another by Shreya Ghoshal, are referred to as symphonies. Your comments.


What can I say? Can you say a cinema song as a keerthana? Keerthana has a form. It has pallavi, anupallavi, saranam, niraval and other elements. I was felicitated at Hariprasad Chaurasia’s Gurukul. Around 25 flautists played and it was described as a symphony. I made it clear to Mr. Hariprasad Chaurasia on the occasion that it should not be called a symphony.

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Symphony is a major form and something cannot be called symphony if it does not fit the form. In India there is no symphony. When Jagajit Singh performed ghazal it was dubbed as symphony. A few keyboard players, tabla players and guitarists performing together cannot be a symphony.


Could you explain the form of a symphony? 


It (the structure of a symphony) is like a statement. There is a first subject. There is a second part of the first subject which should be in a particular key. Then there is a second subject and that should be in a particular key. Then there is development, improvisations through orchestrations, counterpoint and recapitulation, which means repeating what is said first. There should be a return to the original before the end.

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A symphony is like pallavi, anupallavi and saranam in Carnatic music. In the first movement there is a first theme. The second subject is like anupallavi and the development is saranam in which the singer does the niraval. You should understand symphonies like this. There are clear rules and regulations.


Who was there during the composing – the Ilaiyaraaja of Pannaipuram or the western composer you admired?


Why do you expect me to be like them? I am not any of them. You are trying to put words into my mouth. I would like to be identified by the music I have composed. I only want the respect my music earns. Even if I make an effort to be somebody it will not happen. God will give me a slap on my head and show my place. 


You said you have used elements of symphony in the background score of film music. You have released two albums, How To Name It and Nothing But Wind. Can you explain a pure symphony to a lay rasika?


It cannot be explained. It should be experienced. Music is an experience.


Don’t you think some knowledge is required to enjoy it?


What is the knowledge you used while enjoying film music? You are able to differentiate between a good song and a not-so-good song. How do you differentiate it? Knowledge or feeling? Feeling is important.


So you say feeling is important for enjoying all forms of music? 


Not just music. Feeling is important for everything. Feeling is knowledge. Knowledge is not a separate entity.  


But I cannot enjoy Carnatic music without some basic knowledge.


If you are able to enjoy Carnatic music, you are a great rasika. It is not easy to enjoy it.


That is why I am asking whether feeling alone is adequate to enjoy the symphony?


First listen to a symphony and raise the question whether a lay rasika may enjoy it or not. You seem to be asking whether an ordinary person can understand and enjoy Sangam poetry. 


Don’t you think that some knowledge is required in the Indian context?


Are you suggesting that symphony music is not needed in India? There is a Tamil saying, Chitiramum Kai Pazhakkam, Senthamizh Naa Pazhakkam (Practice makes perfect). You also need rasanai (ability to appreciate) to appreciate symphonies.

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Someone can enjoy film songs and differentiate a good song from a bad one because he should have been listening to it for a long time. A symphony is not for everyone. It is something different and you cannot expect equality in it. Why should a man have a birth if he is not able to accept that there is something great in the world? We should accept the great as great. That is why we appreciate Sangam literature even after 2,000 years. Tholkappiyam is 5,000 years old.


Why did you decide to record your symphony in England? Do we have artistes capable of performing for symphony?


If you know such musicians here, let me know and we can record a symphony here. Don’t you know that in India we do not have the kind of orchestra that is available in London? During the British period there were five orchestras in Bombay, Calcutta and Delhi. In Mysore, there was a symphony orchestra and they would practise throughout the year to perform during the Dussehra. But today we have nothing.


Do you have any plans to organise a live performance of your symphony in India?


Only the government can make it happen. If you are ready to invest, we can do it.


In a symphony there is harmony. Does it allow elements of melody?


I have done everything in film songs. Harmony means difference. Differences being together is harmony. Harmony does not mean unison. Many notes played together is called harmony. More than one note played together is counterpoint.


There is an argument that pathos underpins even your happy songs in films. Some say that all the songs of Ilaiyaraaja evoke pathos. Have you done this deliberately or is it a feeling shared only by some?


It depends on how one views it. It is your feeling and I cannot say anything about it because my job ends with composing the song. There is a saying, Ethanai Kodi Inbam Vaithai Iraiva (O God! You have given so many joys). A Communist will say that only rich men are happy and nobody cares about the poor. A sanyasi will say human birth is a waste. The world is what a viewer sees.

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As each one has an opinion of the world and the opinion becomes his world, a song will make a different impact on someone else. It would have offered him solace in a painful moment. It would have given him a happy feeling when he is with his lover. I have not composed with any preconceived notion. For me the movie director should okay the film song.


For many, your songs also evoke a painful nostalgic feeling.


Yes, this is there in my compositions. But that feeling also depends on the time and circumstances. The songs I listened to as a youth occupy my memories too now. 

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